Author Topic: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?  (Read 409 times)

Lazy Fatboy

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A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« on: December 06, 2017, 12:38:23 AM »
So, since my return to the weight gaming forums, every time I login I feel unwelcome. Yes, return. This is my second account. I had requested that kilif delete my first. Instead he merely deactivated it. His reason being he didn't want to leave holes in the forum. I can respect that.

Anyway, so I provided some innocuous feedback to a game or two, and I got a lot of hate for it. Asking if male sprites had been made for one game, and pointing out a problem with another.

Just for reference, I'm gonna copy and paste those posts here.

"I'd just like to say that, being gay, having my character get turned on by a demonic bbw is kind of immersion breaking. Can you write in male versions? Like a male fairy, and an incubus instead of a succubus? Stuff like that. Also, when I try to visit the site, Google says it's insecure/unsafe."

"Any male sprites yet? I love the game concept and scenarios, but I'm more into men."

Both completely harmless posts. Both feedback, neither empty nor unconstructive. They weren't demands, or complaints, and they weren't worded in any way that they could be rightly interpreted as such.

The second post could be seen as worded oddly, but that's because it was a response to an earlier discussion- there had been talk of gender swapping the party characters in Mr. Stuffers rpg, but someone else had to make the male sprites and he'd convert them and add heads and face sets or whatever.

As for the other one, the game actually has you pick your sexual orientation at the start. So being turned on by a BBW was indeed a problem.

Seriously, a lot of this hate was just because plans to change the succubus to an incubus was already in the works, and that the developer was on hiatus or something, neither of which I knew at the time, and neither of which warranted the disrespect I got.

Anywho, like I said, I caught a lot of shit for it, got smited a ton, got a lot of disrespect in particular from a user named "[REMOVED BY ADMIN: Don't try to start a witchhunt on my site]" (how aptly named) who called my feedback "whining and complaining" and called me stupid.

Then people, including the global moderator Dohavocom, started victim blaming me. Saying I had a tone that warranted the hate I was getting, saying I was "entitled" and another person said that I was "unfriendly" or "that I could have worded it more constructively" or some nonsense.

I just wanna point out that if I was ever unfriendly, it was in response to unfriendliness. Not the other way around.

They admitted themselves that tone was completely a matter of perception, entirely in their own minds and beyond my control.

To top it all off, Dohavocom himself teamed up with [removed], mimicking his insults, and furthermore saying that I was the one being nonconstructive and impolite.

It's bad enough when another user is being a troll, but a global moderator should be held to higher standards.

Honestly, I just wanna be here and give feedback and discover new games, I don't wanna deal with all this disrespect and bullshit, but that's what greets me everytime I come back.

So I'm asking kilif in particular- can you fix or remove the karma feature? It's just being abused by toxic people- and perhaps be more careful about who you make moderator? They reflect on you, and on the site. The people who run the site largely define it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 02:10:07 AM by kilif »

Dohavocom

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 01:32:36 AM »
I stand by what i post. If anyone is interested they can view the original thread to see what was posted in its entirety: http://www.weightgaming.com/forum/index.php?topic=649.0

First of all, if you have a problem with someone the best thing to do is to message them personally and work it out. If that doesn't work you can come to me or Kilif. So in this case, if you have a problem with me, then you're more than welcome to talk to me privately  or talk to Kilif. Passive aggressively posting about it is not going to help your case.

My role as moderator is to enforce the rules and try to keep things civil and pleasant. it is not to provide a hug box.

I'll try to explain things as i see/saw them.

People don't like it when someone initiates a communication and immediately ask for something. I know a lot of artists who get tons of messages asking "do you take requests" or "can you drawn my OC for me?. Generally they find it irksome because it feels like they're just trying to get something for free. Making a request is perfectly fine and reasonable, but you have to understand that some people might view it as just asking/demanding free content. That is what you did. You created your account and only made a couple requests. Some people didn't take kindly. I will admit that perhaps the few people who responded to you could have been more polite with their concerns, but communicating via text on the internet is always going to lose a lot of social cues that you normal get with face to face interactions.

Then because of said missed social cues you threw a small fit. And then when you noticed that you lost imaginary internet points you complained about internet points. A word of advice: the best way to lose internet points is to complain about losing internet points.

My "clam down" post was supposed try and calm everyone down, prevent further argument, and bring some levity to the situation. Which it did. There was no argument after that. There was not further negativity directed in your direction(unless it was via private messages. Which i can't see. If there was any harassment sent to you via private message, then that's not acceptable).

Things were fine for like 2 weeks and then you stoked the coals again. You made a post reigniting the argument that had ended like two weeks prior. Now you're claiming i was victim blaming? My post was not victim blaming because you're not a damn victim. You did something that people didn't like. They told you they didn't like it and now you're ego is bruised. Like i said above, if anyone has harassed you via PM then that's different, but you have not been bullied here. you've been disagreed with. The purpose of my posts have always been to try and diffuse, and provide information as to why people might react the way they do. If you don't like the way someone is acting, it is helpful to understand why it is that they're acting that way.

So now with this post, your post count is 5. With this post you again have re ignited an argument that was cold for like 2 months now. You've come back and now made a post complaining and demanding the forum change to suit you. You say you want to contribute to the forum in a constructive manner? Then go do something constructive. Going into a development thread and saying "I'm not attracted to women, you should put more men in your game" is equivalent to standing on the side of a construction site and saying "you know and archway would be really cool there." It feels constructive but it's really not. It's not construction because it doesn't add and real value, and requires other people to do work to execute your idea.
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kilif

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 02:31:35 AM »
Let me be VERY clear. I will never add a rule against "harassment" on this site. That is a dangerous rule that has too much potential to be abused because it is completely subjective. This is an adult forum, I expect people to act like adults on this site, including handling any heat they might get from their posts. If it gets out of hand, I will step in to deal with it like I have on a handful of other occasions in the past, otherwise I like people to take some responsibility. Nothing in that particular thread seemed to warrant it.

Now that that is out of the way, I am not terribly pleased with pretty much any aspect of this post. Attempting some bullshit "call out" on users and moderators is not good form, and in fact, I may make a rule against it. You have a problem with a user, you REPORT them, do not make a public post about this. This is your one and only warning. Do not do this again.

As to my global moderator, know that he has my full backing and I agree with both his responses here and the ones on the thread. He handled the situation in a manner to my liking. As he said, his job is to enforce the rules, not provide a hug box. He wouldn't be my moderator otherwise.

With all that said, could the people on that thread have been nicer? Yes. Is there a rule against rude posts? No. And, to reiterate, there never will be.

Oh, and one last thing...

So I'm asking kilif in particular- can you fix or remove the karma feature? It's just being abused by toxic people- and perhaps be more careful about who you make moderator? They reflect on you, and on the site. The people who run the site largely define it.

I don't take kindly to thinly veiled threats. You're on exceedingly thin ice.
I'll finish something one of these days!

Mangananga

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 04:41:39 AM »
There are some games in development currently appealing to a gay market

http://www.weightgaming.com/forum/index.php?topic=923.0

http://www.weightgaming.com/forum/index.php?topic=915.0

And if those aren't good enough, why not develop your own, god knows some people would be happy to see guys gain.

dingotush

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 08:11:18 AM »
It's fairly obvious that you really don't get why the posts you made are perceived in such a negative way.

A lot of unpaid work goes into creating these games. Developers tend to do it because they want to be creative, and like any writer they write what they know and like themselves. They need to be encouraged. Only one of your posts actually said anything encouraging at all, the other was very negative - the "immersion breaking" comment was really unhelpful and discouraging.

Every time you add another player choice you basically double the amount of work. If the choice was not one planned from the start it triples or quadruples the amount of work. And that's just the coding. How easy do you think it is for a straight person to write convincing gay sex scenes, or for that matter a gay man to describe sex with a female?

My game was built from the ground up to accomodate all starting genders and orientations. The first few releases didn't have the character generator and you started as a female fox furry - the reason for that was that it stretched the engine more than the alternatives. It was a technical choice. I got a lot of flak from people who didn't want to be female, didn't want to be a furry. It was very discouraging. I would have given up there and then if I hadn't already got a solution in the works.

From the perspective of a developer neither of your posts are encouraging. They basically read as "Your game isn't pushing my buttons, please spend much more time than you've already devoted to it to satisfy me even though this isn't the story you wanted to tell and you've no talent for writing what I want". That's where the entitlement comments come from. Not every game can satisfy everyone.

Please, let people write what they want to write. If a game isn't doing it for you just move on to another. Better still write a game that does have what you want, there will be people who will thank you for it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 08:14:07 AM by dingotush »

dingotush

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 09:10:08 AM »
Maybe an analogy would help.

Imagine you meet George R.R. Martin in the street (unlikely I know). You walk up to him and say "This Game of Thrones thing is really big and popular, but I only like novels set in the Star Trek universe. Could you see your way to re-writing it all for me? You know, more space battles, photon torpedos, Klingons and Vulcans, starboard power couplings failing and sexy aliens". The guy has spent much of his life working on those books, each one takes many years to complete. Meanwhile, behind you is a real fan of his works and likes them as they stand, impatiently waiting for the next book and hoping like hell he actually finishes it before he expires. Right now he'd be perfectly happy for your soul to be taken by demons and transported to whatever circle of hell they reserve for people who want everything to be focused on them to the detriment of others. Sadly he wasn't paying attention in summoning 101, never anticipating he'd ever be in a situation where it would be useful. So, dejected, and even more dispondent about the epic ever been finished, he goes home, gets on the internet and clicks "smite" against your username. What more could he do?

Lazy Fatboy

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 11:13:15 PM »
Adults treat each other with respect.

They don't insult people for nothing and then insult them further when they take issue with being insulted. You can demean me all you like, but now I know the sort of mentality that's drawn here- and to call it mature is laughable at best.

It's no wonder I can seldom stomach being here.

Clearly you people are incapable of reading as well, as you have no idea what my first two posts (on this account) were even about.

You interpreted it as simply a request to change the game to my liking- but like I already said, Cryptic's game was made with different orientations in mind- it had you choose your sexuality in the beginning! I was just reporting a problem, one in which a fix was already in the works!

- and regarding the other one, it was in response to this post by Mr stuffer rpg maker pers, and I quote our conversations exactly:

Just wanted to ask- how do I make sprites? I'd be willing to give gender swapping the characters a try.

Well to start you'll need Photoshop or some other graphics program that supports transparency. Anything but ms paint really. I already uploaded a base template for normal males in the resources thread, so you can use that if you want. The half kaizer template I'm using actually does have a few different weight sprites for men, but I haven't gotten them all converted to my template format yet, but if someone does make gender swapped party bodies I'll go ahead and convert them fast as well as create heads and facesets  for them.

So as you can see, assuming you even read it, which I doubt- neither one of my posts were asking for anything that wasn't already discussed or in the process.

But no, according to you, all I said was "durr, make it gay, I don't like women, durr!"

Jackasses.

Nothing I did warrants this. If you people decide to misinterpret everything I say and take offence where there is none meant and lash out at me, the fault is entirely yours.

I made sure to come back and read the replies a lot sooner this time, so nobody could say I was starting up an argument that was already over, because I was sure one of you would try to claim that.

It's over for me this time, that's for sure. I'm removing the login details for this site from my browser.

Grow up, learn to have some respect for others- or don't. I don't care anymore. Enjoy your bastion of toxicity.

kilif

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Re: A rule against Harassment/Bullying/Rudeness?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 12:37:15 AM »
Enjoy your world of delusions elsewhere, I guess.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread, as there's nothing to be gained from further discussions on the matter. If anyone has a problem with how things have been handled here, feel free to message me to raise any concerns or make a post about it.
I'll finish something one of these days!